dw_maintenance | (no subject)

(no subject)

If you:

* Experienced a mild photosensitive reaction to the changes in the last code push (however you define 'mild');
* Do not currently have any userstyle or custom CSS applied to dreamwidth.org and did not have a reaction to the version of the entry/comment page that was live on the site before the code push;
* Are technically comfortable installing and/or using Stylus/Stylish userscripts;
* Are willing to possibly get a headache For Science if our changes didn't work (and then disable things as soon as you realize you are, of course):

-- then please chime in here! We have a few things we'd like to A/B test with a wider pool of people who are more susceptible to some of the triggers in the last set of changes than our photosensitive alpha testers are, but we don't want to put things in front of people who had the more moderate or severe reactions until we have a bit more confidence.

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Wait, is that why I've been getting a mild migraine all day????

Can I just say thank you for being open and understanding about these things?

I've not had any issues with DW thus far, but I do on other sites that are not taking our concerns seriously at all about photo sensitivities.

Thank you, your work is so appreciated.

I came here to say the same thing - though I personally didn't have any reaction to the DW changes, it's something I'm sensitive to in general, and usually the developers just don't care at all. Thank you, DW!

Cynically-but-accurately: it's because this problem is in the absolute infancy in terms of being understood, the science is almost nonexistent, and it's taken what, 20 years for sites to understand what alt text is and why they should encourage people to specify it and that's a lot easier to explain, something this nebulous is gonna be a lot harder.

You can make things like "your color contrast must be within this window of numbers" and "don't include anything that flashes more than 3 times per second" as a hard-and-fast rule that accessibility checkers can check for, and therefore that sites can apply without having to understand the neurology behind, but 90% of this problem is guesswork and entrail-reading based on cutting edge neurological research that you really have to look to find. I will not say I'm an expert, but I know more than most people who aren't studying this sort of thing directly, and we still hit The Wrong Window; most sites that don't trigger problems for people are not triggering problems for people completely accidentally.

+like

We have a few things we'd like to A/B test with a wider pool of people who are more susceptible to some of the triggers in the last set of changes than our photosensitive alpha testers are, but we don't want to put things in front of people who had the more moderate or severe reactions until we have a bit more confidence.

I will not be volunteering for this round because I went zero to migraine on the code push, but as such I very much appreciate this reaching-out and double-checking in stages.

Edited 2020-07-29 19:57 (UTC)

Aha. I just saw this entry on my reading page, and immediately hoped you'd spotted it for the reaching out and double-checking in stages of repair aspect.

I just saw this entry on my reading page, and immediately hoped you'd spotted it for the reaching out and double-checking in stages of repair aspect.

Thank you for the concern!

Thank you for this response. This is how I hoped more places would react to accessibility feedback.

I just got a new bottle of oxycodone, so I am Prepared to mildly suffer for Dreamwidth's good.

This comment was totally not explicitly clear enough so: me! I get literal seizures from LiveJournal's layout but my reaction to DW's was just some eye-burn and vertigo.

Edited 2020-07-29 20:39 (UTC)

Ha! I hope we didn't make it worse for you, then...

I'll email you instructions to your confirmed email; thank you!

Unfortunately I can't offer to help test for that because if I get a migraine it knocks me way out, but I just wanted to chime in that I really appreciate how responsive you guys are to this and I know you all are doing a lot of hard work, fast.

I volunteer as tribute!

I use celerity skin, primarily, without any additional codings. Mostly on a chromebook but I have a windows 10 computer that I can also check in on Chrome/Firefox/Internet Explorer For Science, if needed. The effects were very slow for me. I could tell something was Off, but the headache and nausea was a build up instead of immediate. I think that would fall under mild/moderate?

Edited 2020-07-29 21:29 (UTC)

Thank you so much for being willing to test! I have emailed you instructions to your confirmed DW email address.

I got 'em! I have work until 5pm PST but I'll definitely poke around, after.

I really appreciate you being willing to possibly give yourself a headache For Science!

I'd be willing to help test! I did install a handful of Stylus scripts already that's helped the migraine inducing response but can disable them to install whatever you guys are working on instead.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. Emailed you instructions to your DW confirmed address.

Got it! Installed and am browsing now, I'll reply to the email with my experience but can already confirm that the reverted width and comment box changes are easier on my eyes. ♥ Thank you guys for being so responsive with fixes.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate you being willing to potentially give yourself a headache For Science and to improve things for everyone.

Sure, sign me up! It hasn't triggered an actual migraine for me, just the eyestrain that can lead to one if I'm not careful, so I'd say that's more to the 'mild' side of things.

Edited 2020-07-29 21:35 (UTC)

Thank you! I really appreciate your being willing to test. I sent instructions to your DW confirmed email address.

I followed the instructions and so far I have to say that I am noticing an improvement IMMEDIATELY. I'll keep browsing for a while to see if that holds, but I'm not getting that instant sense of eyestrain that I was previously.

That's excellent news :D

If having always used Dreamwidth for Widescreen is alright, I'm more than happy to volunteer.

(I would disable the Widescreen styling for testing as needed, of course.)

I am going to hold off on asking you right immediately, actually, because in this case I'm specifically trying to A/B test some constrained maximum widths that will probably look really off to you if you're used to browsing with Widescreen on. But thank you!

(I don't know if you saw my comments in the previous dw-maint post, but the thing we're suspecting is causing the issue right now is having hit a bad ratio of character-height to line-width, which is a common photosensitivity trigger -- a lot of people perceive it as being caused by "too much whitespace", but the research is starting to converge on the issue not being the whitespace but the ratio of character height to line width. Small tweaks to that ratio are usually the most effective, so if you're used to reading the site with a much longer line-width than we're testing here, it'll probably all look wonky to you no matter what.)

Understandable!

My initial thought with regards to what was causing my PSV was that something was shifted with the margin and padding values that added a slight increase to font spacing. (Mostly because I kept running into a similar thing in my web dev class haha).

When I tweaked my Widescreen styling and added a 90% font size it resolved the issue for me, so I'm pretty solid right now. No further PSV since. :)

I also really do appreciate the work you guys have been putting into this! I understand to some degree just how obnoxiously difficult it is to implement a functional cross-platform cross-browser web design, let alone focusing on accommodating disabilities. It is a lot of effort, and I look forward to seeing how things are once everything is all ironed out!

I don't know if it is the same thing or if it is just my browser, but the new pages stutter when scrolling down. That kind of thing gives me a headache. If I turn on the beta features, scrolling is smooth again.

Here's a video of the stuttering while scrolling down.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/442852478

Weiiiiiiiird, I've asked around and nobody else is having the same thing happen to them! Is that on mobile? What's your browser, browser version, and operating system/OS version, and do you have any skins/extensions/scripts/etc installed?

~~(EDIT: Also, does it happen on every page or just pages that are set to your journal theme? Does it happen on https://dw-maintenance.dreamwidth.org/83744.html?style=site for instance?)~~

(EDIT AGAIN: NEVERMIND ME, that is site skin, sorry, the black bars on the edges threw me and it's been a very fucking long few days, heh)

Edited 2020-07-29 22:50 (UTC)

Yes, that is on mobile.
Samsung Galaxy S10 Lite, Android 10
Brave 1.10.99/Chromium 83.0.4103.116
Chrome 84.0.4147.105

I'm using Brave browser https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser) but I noticed that Chrome stutters as well, but it is not as bad as on Brave. On Chrome the stutter is barely visible, but it is there. The places where the stutter happens are always the same depending on the contents of the page, both browsers stutter at the same places. And neither browser stutters with the beta features turned on.

Could it be that the same stuttering is causing the headaches for others too, but it is so subtle that it is hard to notice if you don't know it's there? Not sure if I would have noticed it myself just on Chrome, because on Chrome it is not as heavy as on Brave, but it is there. My first thought was that my eyes are just tired and skipping around, but scrolling up and down and seeing it happen at the same place of the page makes it clear it's not my eyes.

Okay, we have narrowed this down to the mobile Brave engine handling something we're doing really weirdly. Trying to figure out if there's a fix possible on our end, but the good news is that it's apparently been fixed in Chrome according to someone else, so Brave should get the rendering engine update as well eventually. We'll try to track down if anyone else has had the problem and knows what's causing it and how to fix it in Brave in the meantime, though it's proving hard to find :/

Oh wild, the same had been happening to me but I thought it was just me/my phone! I don't get it now though. I was on mobile Android version, using an older version of chrome before I updated to the latest version.

Thanks, this info actually helped us figure out the problem is with an older version of the rendering engine (that Brave still uses) which MAY help us fix it...

Glad I could help!

I have a fresh bottle of Percocet and I'll be getting trigger point on Friday, let's do this!

Thank you so much! (I am laughing at your comment because yes, THAT IS HOW IT GOES, isn't it. *toasts you with Schedule IIs*)

I sent an email with instructions to your DW confirmed email. I really appreciate the willingness to help out.

And I appreciate you guys doing this! I know it was rough receiving a lot of negative feedback all at once, but the willingness to work with the migraine/photosensitivity community has definitely made me feel a lot more at ease about all this.

I mean, here's how idosyncratic and poorly understood this problem is: I get photosensitive problems. Didn't trigger for me enough for me to notice it, didn't trigger for our alpha testers who have photosensitivity problems, so I'm guessing that we accidentally have an alpha test pool of people who are skewed to one particular photosensitivity trigger and the people who are reacting are ones with one of the other ones.

I forgot to ask — would you want users to disable eye strain/blue light management tools like fl.ux? It doesn't affect font size or spacing, but it does shift all the colors to be more orange.

F.lux should be good to keep enabled, since as far as anyone can tell (lolsob) that's YET ANOTHER neurological thing

I would like to help! I use Celerity in the default skin; I did turn the beta option for the site skin on, but I can turn it on and off as needed for testing. My reaction was immediate but very mild.

Photosensitivity is so weird! There is absolutely nothing about the new site skin that had ever been on my Makes Brain Weird list, and yet I opened a post in the new style in a tab and immediately brain = weird? Who knows.

Thank you so much! Sorry for the delay, I lost yesterday to weather, sigh.

I've sent you instructions to your DW confirmed email; thank you!

If you're still seeking volunteers, I'd like to sign up. Thank you for continuing to look into the PSV issues.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you; I lost yesterday to weather, sigh. And thanks for being willing to test! I sent you instructions to your confirmed DW email.

Hello! I'm pretty sure I meet all of the relevant criteria, so I can also take a possible headache For Science if you're still looking for testers. Thanks!

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you -- I lost yesterday to weather, sigh. I've sent instructions to your confirmed DW email; thanks for being willing to test!

I'm not photosensitive and don't qualify to test this, but as someone with friends who have been dealing with a Certain Other Site's absolute fuckheadedness around similar issues all day, I just want to say thank you for working on a fix and finding the right people to test it and, you know, actually taking it seriously.

Yes, I came here to say pretty much this!

Thirded!

Seconding this! Thank you for taking it seriously and working so hard to fix things.

Rav actually *just* posted an apology and next steps, and it sounds like they are taking this very seriously, especially Cassidy's nasty emails.

With regard to tweets and emails sent by Cassidy, we would like to make clear they do not reflect the opinions and professional intentions of the Ravelry team, or the way we think about what people are experiencing. We have not been as aware as we should be that these messages were being sent. Cassidy was not in a state to be talking with people, though she does understand that this is no excuse and that the emails that she wrote were hurtful. She is ashamed and sincerely sorry. It will take a period of adjustment, but in the future Cassidy's role will be focused on technical work. She no longer has access to the customer service emails and her Ravelry mail is disabled.

+1 to all this! I'm also not photosensitive and got nothing from the changes, so I can't really help test, but I vastly appreciate you guys working with the users to try to make things better. ♥

I just want to say, you are AWESOME for working on this problem!

(My own issues are mild, and I already set up a custom style so I think that rules me out, but I have friends elsewhere who are much more severe. I'll point them appropriately.)

None of these conditions apply to me, but I just wanted to take the time to tell y'all how much I appreciate that y'all are taking the time to troubleshoot this issue. This right here, one of many reasons I love supporting Dreamwidth.

I'm willing to sign up if you still need volunteers! I've used Stylus (but not Stylish) before and typically use the Tropospheric Red site skin. My schedule's a little crazy so I might not have time to try something out immediately, but if you can wait a day or two for feedback in general and still need someone, count me in!

Yes, we never need anything done right this second! (As evidenced by the fact I lost yesterday to weather.) I've sent you instructions to your confirmed DW email; thank you for being willing to test.

(reply from suspended user)

As someone with moderate photosensitivity, should I be aware of a change that might affect my ability to use this site? Or is this just a beta thing that will go away when you release it in full?

Sorry for commenting though I don't meet the criteria, I'm just making sure

Edited 2020-07-31 00:39 (UTC)

If you go to https://www.dreamwidth.org/beta and toggle the button below "Temporarily revert updated journal page components," that should tell you whether you're sensitive to the recent changes?

(I'm not really sensitive to them, but I do find the 1.5 line spacing a little harder to read with my uncorrectable eye-floater stuff. Plus some color issues tweak me.)

I'm not going to do that since it could cause a seizure, which is why I was asking staff if they're planning on implementing a feature I should be aware of so I know to stop visiting this site for the sake of my own health. I mean I know the op sounds like it's a bug that needs to be ferreted out but I'm just checking for my own benefit

Edited 2020-07-31 13:41 (UTC)

*DISCLAIMER: I'm also not a staff member, volunteer, or otherwise affiliated with the DW team

The OP is in response to issues people had to a code push that went active on July 25th. A bunch of things got changed that made it harder for some people to use DW. The last few posts on

dw_maintenance have more details about the exact changes and the problems people had with them. The updates are currently active so if you're not currently having trouble you're probably fine. But if you do run into an issue,

archangelbeth linked how you can turn the new changes off.

Ah I see. I read the post incorrectly. I thought I was being directed to something that would have the photosensitive elements that I'm trying to avoid

Yes, what

rampantverve said -- if you didn't notice any changes on site-skinned entry and comment pages, you're good to go! Despite our best efforts to screen for photosensitivity problems when we're working on something, a bunch of people had a reaction to the last code push, which got to the site-skinned entry/comment pages in our long-ongoing "modernize the code that generates the site so it wasn't written in 1999" effort. So if you haven't noticed anything this week, you're fine.

I have no issues with photosensitivity, but mad respect to DW for giving a damn about this. LJ sure didn't, the last time I was on there.

I have no photosensitive issues that I'm aware of but I want to say that your instant response to what people reported and your all-around superhero attempts to make DW usable for absolutely everyone, along with your commitment to keeping it ad-free, are what brought me to DW in the first place and why I don't intend leaving any time soon. I don't think I know of another social media site that's so open to letting it's userbase know what's going on. Thank you,

denise and

mark and everyone else on the DW dev team!

Edited 2020-08-01 07:30 (UTC)

(reply from suspended user)

I could help you out with that too, if you'd like another set of sensitive eyes.

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Disclaimer: I am not staff or programmer or anythying

I'm not going to do that, I'm just looking for clarification from staff

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