mark: A photo of Mark kneeling on top of the Taal Volcano in the Philippines. It was a long hike. (Default)
Mark Smith ([staff profile] mark) wrote in [site community profile] dw_maintenance2010-04-30 02:06 pm

code push

The code push is starting in a moment. Please comment here if you see anything go wrong, thanks!
yvi: Kaylee half-smiling, looking very pretty (Default)

[personal profile] yvi 2010-05-01 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
That's your browser's base font size, then. You can either change that or change the base font size of your layout to less than 1 (I have it at 0.7) at http://www.dreamwidth.org/customize/options?group=style
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 08:10 am (UTC)(link)
That's kind of stange, because it looks fine with every other website ;)

And yeah, I can change that - I just though that many others might have the same problem and they will not find it very convenient to have to change the base font of the very basic layout.
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 08:57 am (UTC)(link)
Many, many websites don't care about making their site accessible or that they're overriding users' preferences.
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 09:05 am (UTC)(link)
Whatever, I'm not interested in long discussion, since I'm not here a lot anyway, just wanted to make people aware of something I perceive as a problem.

The problem is this: I see this very site in the usual size. If I change the default options for my browser (which I don't want to do but which I tried), my own layout (once again, the most basic one, not customized in any way) might look OK. 99% of other sites, including this very one do not, as the fonts become tiiiny.
Imho, there is something wrong. Either with the default layout or with font settings. Would be nice, if somebody would look into it instead of telling users that this is their fault.
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 09:26 am (UTC)(link)
I understand your frustration, pax_athena. I won't try to explain again why this change was made. As mentioned in other comments, this entry will tell you how you can go back to the previous setting for Transmogrified, which was 10 points. You can also use the new default unit, em, but set it to something much lower as Yvi explained. As for your browser's default, what would be most useful would be to set a 'minimum font size' if you have such an option, to make sure that whatever other options you set the font never becomes too tiny. Unfortunately, not all browsers have such a setting and I don't know which one you're using.

Edit: I wanted to add that I don't think anybody is telling users it is their fault. We simply explain that, by setting the font to 1em, the layout is now seen with the viewer's preferences and that you can change your preferences, which some people don't know about.
Edited 2010-05-01 09:31 (UTC)
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 09:44 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure that you understood my point: users like me, who are using DW in the most basic way and do not want to change anything on the layout or whatever, would like to have the basic layout have the same font size as everything else. Perhaps changes to the layout are needed, so that the font size is again per default the same as for the general comment site like this one, not to the way the site works, but certainly more people will be frustrated if they start a new blog with the basic setting and have a font so big that reading the friendslist is a pain.

And I'm happy with my browser setting (standard firefox for mac, again without modification, as stated in my first comment) for all other websites. Why should I change it for DW? That's making the users responsible, I think.
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 09:55 am (UTC)(link)
OK, I should put it shorter: A standard layout should be useable without customization. Right now I don't think that the one I'm using is. I can change and perhaps will, others will encounter the same problem.
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 10:13 am (UTC)(link)
Well, were you using previous settings and had I not set a minimum font size in my browser, I wouldn't have read your journal because the font would be too small for me. Just like I wouldn't read a journal with pink text on a black background because this combination of colors hurts my eyes. This change makes your layout usable without customization on my part; I would have had to disable any styling your layout had to be comfortable reading it.
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 10:32 am (UTC)(link)
Excuse me for being nerving, but I was using the standard DW scheme before. If the standard scheme is pink on black background I can nothing for it ;)
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 10:34 am (UTC)(link)
I know you were and I didn't say your layout was pink on black. I was making an analogy.
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 10:47 am (UTC)(link)
And I was making an analogy again in my post as I found your analogy slightly offensive and wanted to emphasize this by repeating it.
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 10:00 am (UTC)(link)
Making the user responsible is the point of the change. The point of this change was to make layouts respect users' choices and not designers' choices so that people who like tiny fonts and have set their browser options accordingly would see it their preferred way and people who like big fonts and have set their browser options accordingly would see it their preferred way *too*. There's no font size specified. Setting it to 1em is the equivalent of saying: make sure to use browsers' default.

You may think it's a mistake because it changes things for you and for other users who prefer tiny fonts and have not set their browsers' preferences accordingly but Dreamwidth has committed to make their site as accessible as possible and as compliant to standards as possible and this change is part of that. It's a pity other websites won't do the same and that's why you're seeing differences. I think most sites use a font which is too tiny and not easily readable and I don't have vision problems but this gives me an inkling as to how difficult it can be for people who do and I'm happy Dreamwidth is trying to change that.
pax_athena: (Default)

[personal profile] pax_athena 2010-05-01 10:04 am (UTC)(link)
OK, so why is then the generic comment site not affected by the change? I mean, if it is generally respecting my setting, than the generic comment website should, too, or am I wrong?
ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-01 10:06 am (UTC)(link)
If you're using Tropospherical, that would be because the site is not up to standards yet. The font size in this scheme is set to .75em and not 1em.
lizvogel: Banana: Good.  Crossed streams: Bad. (Good Bad)

[personal profile] lizvogel 2010-05-03 05:09 pm (UTC)(link)
the previous setting for Transmogrified, which was 10 points.

Thank you for specifying this, as it's the first place I found the actual setting I wanted to return to.

A general note for the support folks replying here: That's the sort of information that should be in the first response to a user, not buried deep in a collapsed comment thread. "Follow these directions and tweak until you like the results" may be a reasonable response if the user is making the original change on their own initiative. When it's the site that made the change, and the user's just trying to get their stuff back the way it was, telling them not just what setting to change but what to change it to is a lot more helpful.

ninetydegrees: Art & Text: heart with aroace colors, "you are loved" (Default)

[personal profile] ninetydegrees 2010-05-03 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, this information is given in the link Yvi and Denise have given to people (http://dw-styles.dreamwidth.org/15428.html).